Feminism

Holding Nazi Collaborators to Account

As you know, Nazis have made several attempts to dox me these past few weeks. They have included my personal information, forcing me to come out with my real name and when that didn’t provoke the response they wanted, they went after my family, many of whom don’t even have social media. They’re currently in control of a comrade’s Twitter account, that they’ve hacked, which I’ve reported and blocked. This is all in an attempt to silence and isolate me.

Kiwifarms has so far been implicated in at least two murders. ‘Joshua Moon’ the administrator denies any involvement but it was partly his rants threatening mass murder that inspired William Atchison to murder two people before turning the gun on himself, just as police stormed the building. It is with this in mind that I emailed the company hosting the site @versaweb to report abuse. It was a Saturday so I figured I would wait until the end of the next working day before I raised concerns regarding their inaction. On May 26th I tweeted them, inquiring why they had not acknowledged my email and encouraged my followers to do the same but despite this, they remained silent. Throughout the course of this past week they have ignored various attempts to engage them, but yesterday, Thursday 31st May I noticed they had a picture of their accounts assistant. Finally, a human face. Someone real to hold accountable.

natacc

I clicked on the website link in their Twitter bio and found more faces.

meetthenazis

I was offline for a short while but when I went to access Twitter via my phone I was suddenly prompted for my password. Now if I didn’t have a healthy distrust for Twitter and the way they enable nazis and their numerous attempts to fish for my identifying information every time I’m locked out, I might have inputted it. Luckily I was so put out by this I scanned the screen for more information, some clue as to why they’d had the audacity to spring this on me and I noticed an ‘ignore’ option in the corner. It took me straight through to my Twitter account. Alarms bells blaring I asked my followers what it meant when this happened and was advised that it was a phishing attempt, someone was trying to hack my account. Out of curiosity I opened my internet browser and saw this.

..Had Versaweb just tried to phish my Twitter password? To what end? I managed to avoid being hacked but my comrade didn’t. There are nazis on his Twitter account currently.

Twitter seem to be taking their sorry ass time about it. A number of us have reported the account has been hacked and also various tweets that most definitely violate their terms of service but it doesn’t seemed to have alerted them.

Reading about the incel who murdered two with a view to many more I can’t help but balk at the statement from New Mexico law enforcement:

“It’s a shame he wasn’t on our radar,” San Juan County Sheriff Ken Christesen told Fox News last week. “I don’t think he had anything so much as a traffic ticket.”

And yet online, the 21-year-old New Mexico resident lived a prolific life as a white supremacist, pro-Trump meme peddler who was most known for his obsession with school shooters. For a half-decade, Atchison spent most of his days online, repeatedly posting threats of violence and cries for help.

Why has the nazi problem been allowed to spin so far out of control? Why hasn’t anyone listened to their victims? This isn’t my first run in with kiwifarms, nor any other chapter of incels, self confessed rapists, racists and paedosadists, there are many mutations of the ‘chans’ that plagued us 4-5 years ago. We reported it then and we were told to log off. We were told by the authorities they could not prove we were distressed or intimidated by nazis threatening to rape and kill us because we talked back. They’ve been allowed to propagate, organise and galvanise themselves. Where is the authority?

No one can say at this stage they ‘didn’t know’. In the aftermath of genocides this is the coward’s lament. Everyone knows nazis are here. Everyone knows they want to force women into having sex.

What are we going to do about it?

Advertisements

Neutralising The Nazi Incel Threat

For more than a week, Nazi Incels (proud white supremacists who can’t seem to get laid) have been stalking my social media profiles, trawling for information that will reveal my location for the purpose of racist and sexual violence.

incel threat

That threat came fairly early on. They had hoped that it would scare me into closing/locking down my accounts because the intention is to silence women, especially of colour, because nazis don’t like it when women speak back, never mind minorities. I stopped reading it after a while, there are only so many threats one’s brain can process without feeling profoundly disturbed.

This is the admin of the site, allegedly. jm-e1527175427625.png

An anonymous account sent me this information. It could be entirely true or a ruse to get us looking in the wrong direction.

 

Kiwifarms had originally targeted me back in 2016 when a member of their forum, Mark Sabine, a lecturer at Nottingham University set up a thread in a similar vein. For reasons unbeknownst to me at the time, Sabine deleted the thread and offered an unreserved apology. I was taken aback, I hadn’t expected it to be quite so easy.

ms1

I couldn’t understand why a troll would use their real name for a start. I’m still not convinced it’s the real Mark Sabine but it should be easy enough to ascertain with a simple email. Mark supposedly teaches queer culture yet frequents a site set up to target queer people. I guess he didn’t think anyone would fight back?

By now we all know what a nazi incel is. For those who need clarification, a nazi incel is a white supremacist who is ‘involuntarily celibate’ meaning no one will have sex with them. Instead of questioning why this might be and making an effort to better themselves they’re weaponising it. Far from being ashamed by this, they are proudly stating the case for forced marriage and promising sex abuse if this demand is not met. Their self proclaimed messiah, another supposedly educated man, Jordan Peterson with his fetish for crustacean porn has been attempting to intellectualise sex abuse with pseudo evolutionary pop psychology that has been debunked all over the internet but it doesn’t seem to have bothered them in the slightest. Imagine if non white men had made a similar statement. Imagine if the asian grooming gangs had turned around and said they were entitled to violate bodies at will and they were not sorry and they would do it again. Imagine the outrage.

Sarah Champion, disgraced Labour MP who resigned as shadow equalities minister following her entirely racist article regarding grooming gangs is awkwardly silent on the growing threat of white supremacist rapists who are emboldened by the authorities’ impasse on the single biggest threat facing women and various other marginalised groups. Selective outrage with regards to sex abusers enables rapists because racism hurts all victims of sex abuse, even white ones.

The internet is heaving with articles alerting us to the dangers of incels and the forums they have set up to avoid accountability.

The internet is enabling a community of men who want to kill women. 

‘Incel Rebellion’

The Official ‘an incel murdered somebody’ thread – Reddit

Hosts like Versaweb have been tripping over themselves to afford nazi incels anonymity when mainstream organisations have been forced to comply with their own community guidelines and take down offending posts. Versaweb  host the nazi site ‘Kiwifarms’ and as yet have failed to respond to correspondence informing them they are enabling abuse. Their silence translates as unequivocal support for nazis and the abuse they mete out to often vulnerable and marginalised targets. The collaborators and enablers, the sympathisers, what are they if not nazis themselves?

On the 25th May GDPR means organisations will need our explicit consent before sharing our data. For months now I’ve been inundated with emails begging to be allowed to continue sending me bumf I have tried to opt out of numerous times over the years. It seems to me they’re really desperate to get my permission and yet I am not confident this will have any effect on nazis stalking and harassing women on the internet. Mostly because the authorities have failed to hold anyone to account for the multiple threats to rape and kill me. However I am in the process of compiling evidence for the police, yet again. Because people have been murdered by nazis and we can shame them into action, even if they don’t personally care.

I have a group of white professionals (mostly male), some with legal backgrounds, prepared to accompany me to the local police station. It’s easy enough to fob off minorities, especially when they have mental health issues and can be harangued into breaking down and disengaging, but white people, white middle aged men, well they know their rights and they’re not averse to demanding them.

Last time I reported nazi incels to the police, in 2014, they said that they could not prove in a court of law that I was distressed or intimidated by the numerous threats to slit me from ear to ear or the images depicting rape followed by promises of the same. They went on to warn me I could be prosecuted for my use of the phrase ‘kill all men’. Well, it’s been a few years since I said those words, once I’d been reminded that my speech was not free. I haven’t responded to many threads promising violence, or the stalking and harassment of my friends and family, many of whom have deleted their online profiles. I have been a good little victim. Let’s see where that gets me.

(PS: The nazis would have had a harder job of tracking me down were it not for the abusive ex partner (also journalist) Shihab Salim Joi outing my full name a coupla years ago in a bid to slander me for exposing him as a domestically and sexually violent abuser. He set up a profile on Twitter which was eventually taken down for impersonation but not before the damage was done. Well done Shihab, for enabling nazis *slow clap* As a father of two daughters yourself, I’m sure you’re pleased with your work. All hail the entitled patriarchy, whether brown or white, they just want the freedom to abuse women and shut them up just because they can. This is usually where I say my favourite phrase but as I am censored you’ll have to imagine it instead)

If you have any information that might help, please contact me on Twitter or via the comments below.

White feminists, when will you condemn the white men attacking woc in the streets for their clothing and colour of skin?

aniso attack

I only ask because I can just imagine the furore if white women were being stripped, spat on and physically assaulted for not adhering to the rules as dictated by, say, extremist Muslim men. As it is, savage white males with delusions of supremacy rooted in toxic masculinity see nothing wrong with assaulting us, even though they routinely come out against Asian grooming gangs (to the exclusion of all white child rapists, of which there are significantly/disproportionately more).

I’m under no illusions that feminism works for me and women like me. I wasn’t dressed like a Muslim but I was still called a Paki bitch whilst travelling through London in the early hours of the morning. Feminism didn’t rush to salve my wounds with the sisterhood, but anarchists did with their innate sense of right and wrong. I still feel happy to identify as an anarchist but I’m hesitant to align myself with the likes of Guardian and New Statesmen ‘feminists’ who seem to have hijacked it from the rest of us. Why aren’t prominent feminists like Caroline Criado Perez, with the nouse and gall to get balls rolling, publicly denouncing the violence being levelled at women of colour and those who ‘look Muslim’? We are women first, are we not? I don’t mean the odd tweet, I mean an awareness campaign on par with the banknotes façade. They dominated front pages, and talking points with their heartfelt pleas to the bank of England. What is preventing women like CCP, Helen Lewis, Suzanne Moore, Grace Dent, Sarah Ditum, heck even Hadley Freeman and the like, from addressing this pertinent issue in their magazines and papers? They were all too quick to condemn women who did not get behind unelected Theresa May as antifeminist, her womanhood qualifying her for sisterly support, even though she frequently allows the murder and torture of women institutionalised at Yarlswood.

Why wasn’t white feminism shook to the core over the murder of Nahid Almanea, stabbed for wearing a hijab? Or the forced termination of SamSam Haji-Ali’s twin pregnancy when she was repeatedly kicked in the stomach by a ‘shabby racist’ who was later convicted of racially aggravated assault and sentenced to a paltry three years? More recently Resham Khan and her cousin were set upon by thuggish John Tomlin in an acid attack whilst they sat in traffic at a red light, she had to raise awareness of the attack herself through social media whilst recovering in hospital. If Resham had been white, the local news agencies would have picked it up the same day and there’d be a nationwide man hunt. The perpetrator would have been taken down and executed, as is the norm for white victims of oppressive forces, their attackers do not live to see another day, never mind sit trial for their crimes.

White women don’t care about woc targeted by white men because we are also frequently targeted by them.

wasi attack

This woman spat on a friend of mine in London recently, right in her face and muttered something like “people like you”. It’s not just disgusting, it is common assault. The audacity of this – older – woman to behave in such a confrontational violent manner towards a virtual stranger is not as rare as it might seem to most people. White women are presented in a light where they are vulnerable and overall, just mean well, as this excerpt from male white supremacists over at Spiked Online suggests.

spikedshite

They need protecting and whilst white feminists like Caitlin Moran think of themselves as ladettes and better than any man, they still need white knights to come to their rescue against women who are not white, like that time Glinner ignored all the racism being hurled around in favour of Moran’s right to literally not give a shit about black women.

White feminists literally do not give a shit about woc and this is why I no longer give any fucks for objectives as set out by white feminists. You can fuck your language policing, ya pearl clutching twats. No, I really do not give a flying fuck for your feeble opinion on women who vote Corbyn instead of May, not least because it is utter garbage. White feminism doesn’t strive for equality but the right to behave like white men. That is not what I thought I was getting into when I chose feminism.

If white feminists cannot condemn white male violence against woc then it is time we started the discussion/debate on the inherent violence of racist sexist white supremacy. The violence of white men and women, and how they’ve turned it on its head to present themselves as the ultimate victims. The perverse attitudes they have towards foreign bodies they want displayed for all to see (frolicking bodies in the sun, decaying bodies in the war on terror) and if you object to this way of being, the forfeiture of inalienable human rights.

Interview on the Headscarf ‘Ban’

Penny Sized Thoughts

As a short Asian woman (5ft 1in) belonging to one of the largest demographics on this here planet of ours, representation matters. We’re an easy target, we’re smaller so we can’t get away quick enough, or we’re more visible because we are child sized in an adult world, frequently fetishised by orientalists and predators who think we’re easy pickings. Everyone has a go, and I mean EVERYONE, because we’re traditionally submissive and scared of most people. The penalties for deviating evident on this very blog, as a notoriously small yet unusually loud and ‘aggressive’ south Asian woman I’m a shock to most people’s systems because I refuse to play to type, not that it matters, people only see what they want. We never have legitimate concerns, we’re merely acting out, throwing a tantrum.

Perhaps this logic can be applied to some people, just not all. The equally diminutive Laurie Penny has since deleted the offending tweet but I gather it went something like this:

laurie penny 2

fetishising yes

Here’s the thing Laurie, there isn’t a niche market for little Asian lady clothes, we live in a society that almost exclusively caters to white people, with their big bones and flat bodies. We are masters of the wunderweb or else we have our clothes professionally altered, it’s always been more expensive to be a little Asian lady on Rainy Fascist Island, unless you manage to find a child sized garment with enough room for woman sized boobs and bums.

We’re the same size more or less, Laurie and I, in height that is. Our bodies are completely different, as you would expect. I suspect Laurie, whilst similar in stature, has a fetishisation for bodies she would deem exotic, the curvier silhouette of a woman of colour for example. It is perhaps why, when she overheard me bemoaning the severe lack of smoochable comrades at a party, she offered her own mouth. What was I going to do, put on the spot like that? I couldn’t exactly reject her (I’m much better at saying no these days, beware)  so I obliged. It was nice enough but I couldn’t shake off the feeling it was a bit awkward and entitled and she walked away straight after, if it wasn’t already weird enough.

Thinking on it now, with my more rounded view of Laurie and the world she inhabits, she probably did it just so she could say she’d kissed an Asian girl and she liked it. It’s not the first time she’s gotten into trouble for saying inappropriate things about woc, specifically small Asian women.

laurie penny fetishlaurie penny fetish 1

Or you could just be a white woman with an orientalist fetish, and enjoy the relative privileges being white gives you. You can dip into short people’s oppressions when it suits, and also the ways in which you are perceived, for instance, I think you play on the infantilisation people impose on you. We’re expected to forgive the awful things you say because you haven’t eaten, when people like myself are expected to never make a mistake even when we’re on opiates for ill health.

laurie eats toast

Frankly, I’m sick of this petulant brat. She is beyond reproach, schmoozing Nazis, helping to rebrand white supremacy for the 21st century and her sycophantic audience laps it up, time and time again. Laurie has many opinions on womanhood and how we use performative femininity to attract men, completely ignorant of the various cultural reasons non white women have for keeping their hair long. She thinks of herself as enlightened, almost Godlike (a white supremacist trait) in her analysis of other women.

I don’t care what she meant, or whether she thinks her words are being taken out of context, every interaction Laurie has with the wider world speaks volumes about the kind of person she is; irresponsible, self absorbed, entitled and ultimately, a predictable bore.

 

Asian Woman Doesn’t Speak For Me

In 2010 I finally found the courage to turn my back on a toxic relationship I had suffered for 5 years. As an historic victim of child abuse with toxic internalised object relations, I had very little experience of healthy interaction within an intimate setting (my father was extremely abusive to my mother) I was hardwired to experience negative emotions in a positive light. My brain translated fear/anxiety into excitement. The very early interactions you have in a romantic relationship, unspoken even, determine whether you give someone a chance and if I’d been just like any other young woman in her 20s with a secure attachment to her early caregivers I would have given this man a wide berth. Unfortunately, I was not, and I was already in too deep the first time he revealed his true nature.

When people suggest victims of abuse could leave if it really was that bad, they are in fact suggesting they do not believe the victim. I tried, many times, to break it off, run as far as I could but abusers know you have nowhere to go, it is in fact one of the things that attracts them to you in the first place, not so much the neon sign on your forehead asking for trouble but the vulnerability we carry all around us, the sadness that seeps through and the need we have to fill all the empty spaces with love, whatever the cost. Estranged from my family, whom I’d fled to escape abuse, I found myself leaping out of the frying pan into the fryer, barely a year into the relationship, when he ‘put his foot down’ and decided he would no longer pander to me, because I had asked him to rinse the bath out after he was done.

Abusers know you have no recourse so they do what they like. They use your body, place their own thoughts and feelings in your brain, pushing yours into the furthest recesses where you can’t find them so easily, gaslighting you until you don’t know who you are anymore. You forget who you are, in a bid to keep them happy, because you know they’re capable of love and empathy, that’s how they draw you in, and you can’t help but wish it will be like that again someday. In the course of an abusive relationship a part of you dies forever. For what it’s worth I am glad that part of me is dead and buried, I was afforded the opportunity to be born again, in a sense. I am at peace with the fact my 20s were destroyed by this leech of a man who did not deserve me. One of the lasting memories I have, if only because of how ironic, is of various male friends of my exes crowing in disbelief he’d managed to score a girl like me. Of course, it was all done in the name of ‘banter’ and whilst I am not personally an advocate for jokes that make no one laugh but insult often vulnerable people, it did cheer me up and now I know they were telling the truth, which is probably why he used to get so upset back then and scream at them he had me cos he was worth it.

You might be wondering why I am bringing this reprobate up now, 7 years after I washed my hands of him. When feminists talk about domestic abuse in the context of gendered relationships, a binary set up, usually with one person in a traditionally male role and their partner female, this dynamic also being prevalent in homosexual relationships, we are keen to illustrate the difference in how this abuse is perpetrated because it matters. It matters in a society where opponents of feminism will accuse women of holding equal structural power and control and being just as likely to commit domestic abuse and get away with it. This is simply not true, gendered violence against women is encouraged in a patriarchal system. The penalties for gendered violence are poor, conviction rates abysmal and support is hard to come by. The rate for repeat offence is the highest in domestic abuse, compared to all other crimes. 76% of victims/survivors will endure further violence for daring to leave. There are many ways men continue to control women they believe to be their property, sometimes many years after the relationship broke down, directly but also indirectly, affecting your future relationships and career even.

This is where my ex Shihab Salim Joi creeps in. Despite his unacceptable behaviour during and shortly after our split, using gendered slurs against me, saying I was a slut for e.g. and good for nothing else he had the audacity to ask me for information regarding a book he was thinking of writing. He wanted to write about domestic abuse refuges and what could go wrong, and wanted to pick my brain for insider information. Obviously I said no. He promised me exposure, as though it was the magic word that would erase memories of him domestically abusing me (most of it was mental/financial/sexual but he thumped me a couple of times). I put *my* foot down and told him to get stuffed.

slander

A few years later, I was googling myself (at least I’m honest) when I saw a link to Asian Woman Magazine which confused me, I had written stuff for Asiana but that was when I was still dating the editor, Shihab Salim, his work for Asian Woman was definitely post-split, after he’d been made redundant as a victim of the credit crunch. I couldn’t believe my eyes when I read what it said. Not only had someone used my name and job description from Asiana, I was the ‘agony aunt’ for a bit, they had given out the kind of advice an abuser would deem suitable. As a staunch feminist who hates most men I am hardly going to advise you pander to any manz fragile ego. If these shoddy little men can’t get a grip on their own toxic masculinity I would advise you kick their asses to the kerb and let them cry wank into the night, you are worth more than some man child who missed out on key developmental stages and really just wants you to be his mum. THIS is why I have written this post. When you google my name, or Shihab’s I want this link to show up too.

I contacted Issuu who said they cannot amend or delete any content without the publisher’s consent but the publisher/editor is as elusive as Wally, in that I can’t find her, even though her name is all over the internet. I can’t/won’t submit a DMCA request because copyright infringement would mean they used words I’d written without my consent and I want it noted I most definitely did not write the frankly, badly written frottage of an excuse for journalism published by J Wimal, clearly without editing, otherwise she would have known I wasn’t at all involved in Shihab’s shameless display of male entitlement and indirect harassment.

It has been 7 years and I am still having to deal with this man turd and his attempts to control my opportunities. This is why women don’t leave. We’re afraid they’ll carry out threats to destroy us, our reputations (as it is in my case), or even our lives, the 52 women murdered by their intimate partners every year a testament to this, for daring to think of themselves for a change, for saying enough is enough.

UPDATE: Issuu have quarantined the offending article as the publisher appears to have deleted their details from the Issuu database. Thank you to Jonas at Issuu for taking my concerns on board.

ANOTHER UPDATE: I will never cease to be amazed at the lies people tell, even when you have evidence to the contrary. What is going on in that tiny little brain of yours Shihab? Is it perhaps a barely veiled threat to out me, giving the name on my passport without my permission (kinda your MO), as though you can scare me into a corner in defense of my anonymity? You were one of the people who convinced me to change my name! You said you wouldn’t employ anyone who sounded like they might wear a hijab and suggested I include a photo of myself with my CV.

IMG_3494

That’s really odd, because if you really are telling the truth here that’d mean you also used my image without my permission.

It behooves you to tell the truth as it happened, Shihab, lies always have a way of unraveling themselves.

Poor Shihab, leaving a trail of angry ex girlfriends in his wake, when he is just a kind and decent sort. I’m not the first to say he’s an abuser, and I won’t be the last. I have plenty more evidence should anyone require it. You won’t take me to court because you’ll lose. Just saying.

Part Three: Sticks and Stones

clarkson-racistjterry

“It’s not racist to say the p or no words, maybe offensive to those who love to be offended but they’re just words.”

may-not-a-racist

“Those might be racist words but they were not said with racist intent.”

immigration   ukba-vans

“It’s not racist to say.. you don’t care about black people.”

Much of the rhetoric around racism the past few years has been rooted in denial of its very existence. It’s not racist to have an opinion, even if that opinion dehumanises non whites. The definition of racism has been distorted so that we cannot complain of racism unless a white person was on hand to witness it and their criteria is met.

boodleoops  bengoldrhodes3

Even then it might not be that racist, the white person is just ignorant through no fault of their own, we must try to understand the economic difficulties that inspired their Very Legitimate Concerns and accept their superior status on account of their whiteness.

moron  morangoldacre

When Caitlin Moran told the word she literally couldn’t give a shit about black representation, what effect did that have on ignorant white people? The woman who taught liberal middle England how to be a white feminist attended Michael Gove’s wedding even though she’s a ‘leftie’, also thinks it’s funny to punch down at those with less privilege, people with HIV status or trans people for example. All we ever did was point out how wrong this was, nauseated as we were at this odious bigotry. Imagine if she and her friends had replied “I’m awfully sorry I’ve made you feel this way, it was not my intention. Please accept my sincere apologies, I will do better”.

IMAGINE.

Admitting fault in a toxic post truth world of their own making is impossible for these most fragile of snowflakes. They double down. They responded to our increasingly (understandably) hostile call outs with pointed irreverence.

blame-caitlin   haynesbanging

haynesprick

The journalists we knocked heads with online continued with the very agenda we were opposing because they knew they had the power to silence us and carry on as if this kind of racism was the norm.

disgracedent

liddle  muslimmums

cathy newman.jpg

Later that day.

cathy-apologises

Only powerful white people have the power to say what is and isn’t racist.

dawk      stephenfrydawk

britfirstdawks     dawksnotaracist

They can claim they’re being silenced by our call out culture and no platforming, the only tool we have to combat hate speech, but we know otherwise.

freespeechsure

bindelbindel-transphobia  bindel1

julie-bindel-threats

3 years of this blatant propaganda (Lee Rigby provided a catalyst on the back of years of fake news following 9/11) and denial of its trickle down effect has culminated in the rise of cowardly fascism, white supremacists emboldened by the actions of those with the power to do immense good, who’ve demonstrated consistently their intolerance of folks deemed *other by the most privileged in society. Those who possess the kind of privilege that could bring world peace, if they weren’t so white, greedy and self obsessed. They lie, they turn the truth upside down and in doing so condemn 100s if not 1000s to a backlash incited from their national platforms to their international audiences.

farage-of-the-left

60% of people don’t read past headlines, and the journalists know this. Object and they’ll pull out the Journo Card “if you’d actually bothered to read it.. I address that further down in the piece”. How gullible do they think we are? Every word is deliberate. They make the news but they also want to be the news, so playing the victim even under all of that privilege keeps them relevant. They understand power and control dynamics and are aware they possess most of it. This campaign to undermine and erase various feminists of colour, trans women, sex workers etc has been successful, most people bought into their divisive narrative. Most people believed the lies.

suzanneedl

(published 2011)

burka

We cannot now be expected to believe they are on our side, ready to fight fascism and smash white supremacy. Not when they’ve done some of their best work drip feeding bigotry to the unquestioning masses. No one wants to go down in history as a nazi collaborator, but there are no free passes here.

(TBC)